For DreTL, his defining moment on Rhythm + Flow Season 2 wasn’t the one you’d expect — not the big one, when it was announced in front of a live audience that he’d won the hip-hop competition show and the whopping $250,000 cash prize. No, it was well before that. Not on stage, but rather in the basement of a church in Michigan. And while there was also an audience, to DreTL, there was only one other person in the room: his favorite rapper, Eminem.

“Once I was able to perform in front of him, I felt like I was going to win, because nothing was tougher than that,” DreTL tells Tudum. Under Detroit’s historic Saint Andrews Hall where Eminem first honed his skills, the Rhythm + Flow contestants were challenged to go head-to-head in a cypher battle. “The finale wasn’t as hard because of what it meant to me. This is the Eminem, and if I could do this right there in front of him, I can do anything in the world. I can fly.”

And indeed from there, the Atlanta-based rapper only continued to soar higher in the competition until he finally clinched the title of hip-hop’s next superstar. Judges Ludacris, DJ Khaled, and Latto all agree that coming to a final decision was extremely difficult, but in the end, DreTL proved to offer much more than just bars.

“It was his heart, man,” Ludacris tells Tudum. “You know how in school there’s that kid that just does well and does everything good, and then you have that kid that is the most improved? For me, that’s what did it. Just getting better and working [on your craft] consistently every day is going to be better than just perfection. Perfectionists may be stagnant and stable and doing the same thing over and over again. Those that are consistently trying to do better every single day, you’re going to get a little something different. And as humans, we want a little bit of imperfection. That’s who we latch on to.”

Sure, DreTL himself will admit that his road wasn’t perfect, but even runner-up Jay Taj knows that the 22-year-old has something special. “[Before the finale], we got dinner and I told him, ‘as long as it’s us two as the last two, then we won, bro,’ ” Jay Taj tells Tudum. “I think that we see something in each other. I mean, I can’t speak for him, but I see something in Dre that is remarkable. And I know that there is a vast difference in the way that we present our art to the world. But the thing that is the same is: I give Jay to the world. Dre gives Dre to the world. And this is one and the same with every great artist that’s ever lived.”

In the video below, DreTL explains the significance of his first post-Rhythm + Flow performance at the sold-out Atlanta Hawks vs. Los Angeles Lakers halftime show, especially given that he’d been working in the Atlanta arena’s JR Crickets for the last five years. 

Now read on as DreTL reflects on his Rhythm + Flow Season 2 journey and teases what’s in store now that he’s been crowned hip-hop’s one to watch.

How does it feel to be the winner of Rhythm + Flow Season 2?

It feels great, honestly. I am very grateful just being where I’m at in my life and knowing I get to start my life doing what I love to do. And I won’t take it for granted, because everyone’s not able to do that, and it’s not because they’re not talented or because they don’t have what it takes. It’s just the way the dice falls, really. So it’s like, yes, you have to be talented, yes, you have to put in hard work, but a lot of it is spiritual. It is God. It is whatever you want to call it. 

How did your mom take the news?

My mom called me when I was on the way back to the hotel we were staying in, and she just asked, “Well, what happened?” and I didn’t answer right away. I was still in disbelief. After a couple seconds I was like, “I won.” I just said it just like that, “I won,” real calm. She’s like, “Dre, are you serious?” and then I said, “Yeah, Mom, I won,” and then I mean, she just belted out so loud like, “Oh my God!” She was screaming and she just let everyone in the prison know. They all know me because I always do visitation and they’ve been keeping up with what’s going on in the show. The entire cell block just was screaming, yelling like, “Oh my God, congratulations!” They were chanting “Dre-TL, Dre-TL,” so that moment was just as special as when they announced me as the winner, honestly.

What do you think sets you apart? 

Honestly, everything that I do when it comes to my art is all spiritual. It is all connected to God and being in tune with myself, because everyone [on the show] can rap. If you couldn’t rap, you would not have made it among thousands of people who wanted to be on the show. And then when you get to the show there are still so many contestants, and you get there and you are in a room full of hungry, inspired, and motivated artists. And so for you to come out and be that one, everything has to be right. I really feel like it’s certain stuff that I did that I shouldn’t be able to do. Under the time constraints, under the pressure, I just can’t chalk it up to me being a good rapper. It is supposed to happen. It’s destined.

When you look back on your time in Rhythm + Flow, what are some of your favorite moments?

Top of the list got to be Eminem. I love, love, love Eminem. He is my favorite rapper. He is my mom’s favorite rapper, and he was the one who motivated me to rap. Because the way he raps, it’s like, how is that possible? How can you bend words in that way? I don’t even sound like him when I rap, so a person probably wouldn’t guess it without me telling them, but he is the one who taught me how to rap without ever meeting him.

So when he came out in Detroit at the shelter where they shot 8 Mile, that was my favorite moment. He was probably [the] top one [person] ever that I said I want to meet. And I always thought ‘I’ll meet him one day,’ but I did not know that I was going [to] meet him so soon. 

And then your mom called you, right?

I said, “Mom, you will not believe ... .” I don’t know if I cried, but I really don’t care, honestly. It was very emotional.  Because if people get to meet that person that they idolized like that … And then I just said, I said, “Who is my favorite rapper and your favorite rapper?” And she said, “Eminem.” I didn’t even have to say his name. 

What about the hardest moment for you?

Also when I did the rap battle in front of Eminem. He’s this close to me and we’re in the shelter where they shot 8 Mile and we’re doing a rap battle. He’s a legend when it comes to rap battle music in general. So I really couldn’t even turn over and look at him, because I would’ve got choked up just looking at him. So I had to really lock in on my opponent. But the moment I walked off, and I completed the mission of doing a rap battle in front of Eminem, like I said, that gave me the confidence that I could do whatever. So definitely that.

And a second was definitely the collab challenge, because I have a specific style and I have a specific subject matter. Shout-out to Josh Levi. He’s an amazing artist and I liked that song, but the thing about it was, I never done anything like it and I’m not used to it, and it is not my style. So wrestling with how do I do something that’s not me, but staying true to myself at the same time, doing it, was very challenging. I almost gave up. So that portion of the challenge really was like, “This is your test, and if you make it through this, you’re good.” And I made it through that.

Is there any feedback that you got from the star mentors and judges throughout the competition that you have or will incorporate into your work going forward?

My biggest thing was mainly what Latto said in the finale because she came from a rap competition TV show. Her advice was like, win or lose, it’s about what you do with the moment. What you do after it. Because if all I do is win Rhythm + Flow, I still see that as a failure. I’m grateful that I won, but I want to be inspiring people. I want to be motivating people. I want to be helping people in life in general, not just through art. That’s why I didn’t drop out of school. 

 It’s important to have a legacy that’s greater than just music. Music is fun and it’s good and it’s what I love to do, but a lot of stuff is going on in the world.

So what’s next?

I just want to continue to create genuine, good art. I don’t really care what people’s expectations are. I don’t care about charts and billboards and plaques and Grammys. I just want to be happy. I got a little money now, and I can really be set up to do what I love to do. As long as I'm able to do that, I'll be happy — and for whoever listens, I’m glad that I’ll be able to connect with people in that way.

What do you want people listening to your music to take away from it?

I genuinely want people to do what they love to do. Everyone doesn’t have the luxury to be able to do what they want for a living, but I think you should still try to do it no matter what your family says, or society. I’ve always been a fighter for that. Do what you love to do and figure out the rest. I’d rather live paycheck to paycheck doing what I love.

What did the experience in the competition teach you about yourself?

This taught me that I will be able to survive in this industry being who I am and not wavering from that. I’m not really into having beef with people — disagreements will come about, but I know so strongly who I am, and I know what I want to do.

This interview was edited and condensed for length and clarity.